Haegwan Kim: Thanks a lot for your time. At first I want to ask you about your personal definition of success.
Ken Shibusawa: I think there are two perspectives. One perspective is based on my personal feeling that success is like climbing a mountain. After you are successful in climbing a high mountain, you certainly enjoy the scenery, but if there are no other higher mountains in view, then the only direction from there is down. So, being successful means, always having another mountain to climb.
HK: You never felt satisfaction then?
KS: Well, I think I feel some satisfaction by seeing the beautiful scenery, certainly. But as you know, even Bill Gates, Ken Shibusawa, you, or anybody, we all share the same result. That is departing from this material world. So the end result is same. The difference is a path we take.
HK: OK.
KS: The other perspective is that you never know if you’re successful. People may think that you are successful, but you may feel you have not done enough to be successful. It is difficult to see yourself objectively. If, on the last day in this world, people feel “Oh it was good to have this guy around,” then I guess you were successful.
HK: What you can control is not what people think about you but what you think about people.
KS: Yes, that’s right. You never know what others thinking about you. Even if I don’t think of myself as "successful", sometimes my friends tell me what I'm very successful. So you really never know what’s success unless you set your own criteria.
HK: Do you use that criteria not only in personal life but in business life?
KS: Yea sure, on the business side there are lots of mountain I’d like to climb. As a venture business, you can set your own criteria on what’s good or bad. For me, the key is whether it's “fun” or not. I don’t mean it in a light way, but what I mean is do you really enjoy what you are doing from the bottom of your heart. For me, that joy comes from creating something that did not existed before. But it’s not creating all from scratch. Rather, it’s more about connecting two or more ideas, which didn’t look related to most people, until you did it. For instance, currently I’m trying to connect finance and nonprofit and worlds, which seems unconnected to most people, especially in Japan.
HK: You’ve been engaging connecting finance and nonprofit since 2001, haven’t you?
KS: Yea, it’s been about 10 years. On the morning of 9.11, I woke up in Seattle, thinking I was going to fly to Washington DC. I was wrong. I was grounded in Seattle for about a week, until the airports started to open up. Here I was, just starting a business six months ago, leaving my baby son and my wife, who was bearing my second son, and I was completely stuck. I lost my freedom, that I took for granted. Growing up in the US, one big difference between Japanese and American societies is the concept of freedom. You went to the university in the UK, so it might be little bit different but for American, freedom is like...
HK: Virtue?
KS: Yes, but it’s more like religion.
HK: Interesting.
KS: It’s what the United States stands for. It’s what America is. Admittedly living in the States can be more personally dangerous for you than to live than in Japan.In Japan, you probably will not get shot on the streets, but there is a price to pay for that, and it is called freedom.
HK: Mmm, true.
KS: I’m sure you understand this concept of less freedom since you grew up in Japan as a minority. It’s really difficult place to be a minority in Japan. But on the other hand, I think we should always remember that there’s always cost for the freedom. Freedom is really sensitive and complicated, isn’t it?.
HK: You’re trying to bring freedom to Japan?
KS: Well, I’m not a freedom fighter. But I agree with your point about diversity and the 21st Century. 20th Century model was based on increasing efficiency and productivity to become industrialized, and of course wealthy, nations. So there was basically one mantra that everyone followed. As the Nobel Laureate Milton Friedman said, "there was one social responsibility to do business which is profitability. I thought there was more to it than that, but he received a Nobel Prize, but, not me.
HK: Haha, then what about the 21st Century?
KS: Well, the very year that Friedman passed away in 2006, Muhammad Yunus received the Nobel Prize for recognition of his work in micorofinance to combat poverty. He said that, “people are so diverse, and because businesses are comprised of such diverse people, then it should not be bound to a single objective of profitability.” Two Noble Prize laureates with opposing views. I think Yunus represents the 21st century model of diversity. Diversity means profitability is certainly important, but there should be and there are other important issues too. People are very diverse, so we have to have a share a mindset to understand one another, right? That’s the message in this century.
Japan had its period of high growth, but currently is a mature, stagnating economy. There are other economies that are growing rapidly, and some others whose growth may be some years ahead. But, our society is now interconnected on the Internet, it’s very close right? You have your Facebook account and I have mine, and we can be friends even you're living in Africa; this never happened before.
Certainly there was diversity in the 20th Century but it was much less connected. In this interconnected century, in order for companies and society thrive, they must embrace diversity as an invaluable asset.
But there's an interesting dilemma, because the diversity means that people have different backgrounds, different principles, different values, and different rules - so what do you do? There can be the one rule, the so-called “global standard.” That is certainly one way of thinking.
However, I think rule-based world, especially in Japan, tends to constrain, rather than encourage innovation. However there must be some important commons values shared by all, a principle-based world. Principle meaning that there are shared values even you’re American, British, Japanese, Korean, whoever you are. If your family or friends pass away - it’s sad. right? But, everyone is happy when their child laughs. Sure, we are different, but there are certainly common values that is shared by all the human beings.
HK: Do you suggest writing down the common value and share that with every one?
KS: We don’t have to, because they are already written for us. If you take philosophy from ancient China, or Greece, they are all saying the same thing. [Laughter]
HK: Haha, yea in a way true.
KS: Look at religion; different religions have been killing each other throughout the history of mankind, yet they all say the same thing. Do good and don’t do bad. At the core, it’s all same. Even 2000 years elapsed, humans make the same mistakes, and because we make mistakes, that is why diversity is important. If we are wrong or make a mistake, then we are not all wrong or make mistakes, and humankind can continue to thrive.
HK: Cool. Let’s talk about the professional side of your life. As the Internet grows, how is the landscape of donation for NPOs changing?
KS: I think the potential is huge. You can see how powerful the crowd resource is at the Obama’s campaign in 2008. Commons Asset Management that I established with my partners during the same year is based on a similar principle. Individuals who believe that sustainability of themselves and their children can, by nature, think about the long term. That is, investing a modest fixed amount at a fixed period, monthly, for their future. The amount that the individual invest may be modest, but if even10% of the households in Japan thought and acted in this manner, this will generate huge monthly inflows. With this monthly inflow, we can continue to support those listed companies who believes that their objective is to create sustainable corporate value growth. We also contribute 1% of our revenues to support social entrepreneurs through the Commons SEEDCap Program. A little bit of hope can do a lot, if it is gathered and channeled properly.
HK: Haha, true.
KS: The problem is that if it is “long term”, some people feel that they can’t see the benefits, i.e. the economic return on their investments, immediately. But, if one believes in the cause to leave a better society for our next generation, it shouldn’t be a big barrier. You know, the world cannot be changed overnight, it takes long, long time, till it happens, when it happens very fast.
HK: Is the mountain you’re climbing, which is to bring a change on those traditional yet ossified donation culture, the highest so far?
KS: [Laughter] Yea, actually it is really difficult, but that’s why it’s fun right?
HK: True. As the final question, I’m asking this to all the interviewees: please tell me your own advice to achieve success.
KS: Well it’s sort of a plagiarism though...
HK: [Laughter]
KS: But according to the Analects of Confucius, there’s a saying: “To like is better than to know. To enjoy is better than to like.” There are different ways to interpret this proverb, but the one I prefer is an interpretation by my great great grandfather, Eiichi Shibusawa. He said in order to achieve, you must have knowledge. But having knowledge itself does not leads to success. Because knowing, doesn’t necessary lead to action. That’s why he said liking something is more important than knowing something, because there is a sense of attraction, and attraction leads to movement. But if you just like something and face a wall, you might give up. But, if you find true joy in what you do, then even if you face a wall, you might think of it as a “wall”, but simply something to to climb over, or something to dig under. If you find joy in something, then you just keep on doing it. And, we know that, keep doing something is the most powerful thing that leads you to eventual success. I’ve met many successful people in my career, and they have common aura. It islike “man, they sure are enjoying their lives!!”
HK: Haha, true, most of my interviewees love what they do and are enjoying it.
KS: I don’t mean that they’re all super wealthy, but they laminate with joy in their lives. You can study by yourself to obtain knowledge. You can like something on you own. But if you enjoy something, you want others to join. Or, if you appear to be doing something fun, then, people will gather. This joy is something like Joseph Nye’s “soft power.” At the end of the day, if you can attract the right people by sharing your joy, then you’ve achieved success.
HK: Thanks a lot.
Ken Shibusawa is the Founder and Chairman of Commons Asset Management
